Career Advice: Dan Schawbel vs Penelope Trunk
There are tons of Gen-Y Career Advisors on the internet. There are probably more Career Experts on the internet than Social Media Experts (now imagine that).However, when it comes to people who have truly made a reputable career in Gen-Y career advice, two names stand out above the rest. One is the owner of the Personal Branding Blog and self-proclaimed Gen-Y Personal Branding Expert Dan Schawbel, and the other is the Founder of Brazen Careerist and prolific writer Penelope Trunk.
Just like Tim Ferriss and Gary Vaynerchuk, Dan Schawbel and Penelope Trunk have vastly different styles in giving out career advices. Dan Schawbel usually gives out very solid textbook advices about building your personal brand and carving out a good niche for yourself, while Penelope Trunk takes the unorthodox and controversial approaches to teach the Gen-Ys some lessons.
Because of that difference, I would like to explore the various styles and different advices Dan Schawbel and Penelope Trunk gives to Gen-Y on each topic.
Dan Schawbel vs Penelope Trunk - Writing Styles
Dan Schawbel: The Professor
When you look at Dan Schawbel’s blogposts, it is always very professional and well structured. You can tell that Dan Schawbel has been carefully crafting his personal brand.
However, the downside to it is that sometimes it can get a bit dull and dry.
Dan rarely writes about his personal life and experiences. The only things that he reveals when he talks about himself are his list of accomplishments. When you hear “My name is Dan Schawbel”, be prepared to listen to another dozen seconds of all the impressive things he has accomplished. That is personal branding at its finest.
Penelope Trunk: The Gossipy Friend
On the other hand, Penelope Trunk takes things to another extreme. She takes her blog to such intensive personal levels that it shocks her audience.
Penelope Trunk would include details about who she hates, her sex and dating life, her headaches with balancing kids and company, and much more.
Unlike Dan Schwabel who focuses on pure advices, Penelope Trunk talks about her struggles and what people should learn from them. She allows people to see the raw things in life – with a Penelope twist. A lot of her posts are actually 90% personal experience, and 10% real career advice.
For instance, her post about How to Deal with Getting Fired (From Yahoo) focuses mostly on how it happened and how she felt at the moment, but only a small part of it is real advice on what SHOULD a person do in that situation. There are other posts about “How To” do something where she mostly talks about how she tries something and it made her extremely frustrated. Sometimes it’s a “How Not-To”.
In this sense, Dan Shawbel is like a professor that lectures about the fundamentals of a subject, which is very useful but not as interesting, whereas Penelope Trunk is like that best friend who is always sharing about her struggles and feelings while giving you advice based on them.
She even tells you how she changed her name from Adrienne Roston to Penelope Trunk.Your professor probably wouldn’t do that.
Dan Schawbel vs Penelope Trunk - Career Advices
With such different backgrounds and styles, lets check out what Dan Schawbel and Penelope Trunk have to say about various topics in career development.
Chances are, a lot of their advices will be radically different. However, you know that if they both say the same thing on the same topic, it definitely is something that you should be paying attention to.
Dan Schawbel vs Penelope Trunk on Grad School
Lets start with a topic that is easy to digest: should you go to grad school or not.
Being a very text-book person as he is, Dan Schawbel says that it’s very situational. Here he lists out what he thinks are the pros and cons of going to grad school. On his list one of the “cons” of going to grad school include “If you don’t have an MBA or similar degree, you suffer a competitive disadvantage and can’t rise to the top of the corporate ladder because other’s have one.”
From that you can see that Dan Schawbel definitely points his career advices towards being competitive in the corporate world. It seems like according to Dan Schawbel, if you can afford being in an Ivy League school in a recession and you don’t have a high paying job that you love, then it’s a good idea.
On the other hand, Penelope Trunk’s entrepreneur and columnist background say that grad school should only happen if you are ABSOLUTELY sure why you want it. Besides saying that graduate school is outdated, she states that advanced degrees in the Humanities are worthless, MBAs are only useful if you get in early, and that it is “not a way to play it safe, but it’s a way to play the odds”
Dan Schawbel vs Penelope Trunk on Self-Promotion and Personal Branding
Ok, lets get into Dan Schawbel’s strong forte. As a person concerned about his/her career development, a personal brand is essential to becoming successful. And along with personal branding comes self promotion.
Regarding self-promotion, Penelope Trunk chooses to do it in a very subtle manner. You rarely see her everywhere telling people to go on her blog and Brazen Careerist. You also don’t always see her talking about her professional background. In fact, in a post about 5 ways to be better at self promotion she talks about specializing, tacking difficult issues, shutting up, and staying patient. These are all very passive manners of self-promotion.
Penelope Trunk definitely tries to promote herself by being VERY different. Instead of telling people why they should care about her stuff, she creates content that is so radical that people have no choice but to care about it.
Dan Schwabel, on the other hand, is the master of active self-promotion. To his credit and tons of hard work, he is all over the internet in a relatively short amount of time.
As a strategy, he would make sure that people recognize his credentials as early as possible, and he would be wherever his audiences are at. That way he makes sure he offers value for as much people as possible.
Some people frown upon active self-promotion, but Dan Schawbel says it well when he says that An Ego in an Opportunity. He talks about how we need to utilize our egos into power that pushes us forward instead of treating it like something that should be beaten down and locked up. Dan Schawbel definitely walks his talk.
More importantly, Dan gives out much more specific advice on exactly how to execute with the self-promotion process and build one’s personal brand. Here he creates an intensive personal marketing plan that any beginner can follow in a step-by-step manner. This is definitely more helpful to those who want to execute a self-promotion plan compared to just some general tips and advice.
Dan Schawbel vs Penelope Trunk on Advice for Undergraduates
College only happens once (hopefully), and you only have one chance to do it right. Both Penelope Trunk and Dan Schwabel focus some of their attention to helping out kids who are still in school.
In Penelope Trunk’s article about What to do in college to be successful in your career, she lays out 20 practical tips about how to make sure your schooling doesn’t get in the way of your education.
Dan Schawbel also wrote a post about the things he would do differently if he were in college again. Dan focuses his advice heavily on building relationships and networking, since he was over-achieving on everything else (he also kindly gave a self-promotion alert on this post).
You will notice that both Dan Schawbel and Penelope Trunk talk about getting more involved in campus and engage with more opportunities so you can learn as much as possible.Neither one of them emphasized on going to class more often or getting a 4.0.
As you can see, being an undergrad is about being active, learning, connecting with like-minded people, and discovering your own passions, not making a piece of paper look good.
Dan Schawbel vs Penelope Trunk on The Corporate Ladder
The corporate world is a huge part of America. There’s a reason why it’s called Corporate America. And to fulfill the “American Dream”, one must supposedly be part of that corporate ladder.
Dan Schawbel enjoys talking about building a strong brand name to strive in the corporate world and climb the corporate ladder effectively. He specifically writes a post about Climbing the Corporate Ladder and building up years of experience with leadership development programs.
On the other hand, Penelope Trunk writes a post about how The Ladder isn’t the only way up, specifying that people can start businesses, work in a startup, or do some freelance work instead. She also says that instead of serving in the corporate world for decades, one should recognize that paying dues now becomes old-school.
The key here is to really know what your life goals are. If you want to strive in the corporate world and become a high level executive, you need to play the corporate ladder game.
If your goal is to create enough freedom to do what you are passionate about, you don’t need to climb the ladder. The rollercoast is better for you instead.
Dan Schawbel vs Penelope Trunk on Networking
We all know that networking, genuinely known as building relationships, is essential in being successful in whatever you do. After all, every single dollar you make is given to you by someone else, and if have zero people skills, there will be very few people giving you those dollars.
Unsurprisingly, both Dan Schawbel and Penelope Trunk emphasize on the importance of networking. Penelope Trunk talks about how the key to make people like you is to be responsible, know what you can offer, and put in some flattery.
In 5 Tips for networking with people who are more successful than you are, Dan Schwabel also emphasizes on having something to offer and give it out for free. He also talks about genuine interest and techniques of being discovered by them.
Clearly, strong networking is about appealing to others’ interests and helping them out. Things can only grow as deals happen, and deals flow smoothly when it’s through relationships.
Dan Schawbel vs Penelope Trunk on Money and Happiness
Money and happiness are things we all care about from a career aspect. Both Dan Schawbel and Penelope Trunk have something to say about that, but offer different advices.
Interestingly, Dan Schawbel who is more of the corporate routed guy, promotes leaving a job that you don’t dig and doing what you are passionate about. He also reminds people that happiness is internal and cannot be satisfied by materialistic standards.
Penelope Trunk, who is an entrepreneur, decides to tell people that the connection between a good job and happiness is overrated, and that doing what you love is bad advice. She feels that doing what you are good at is far more practical than doing what you love, which makes a lot of sense. If you do what you are good at and become successful at it, you set up your life to become happy in an easier manner.
Like Dan, Penelope Trunk also agrees that one does not need to be making a lot of money to be happy and adds that a person’s sex life matters more.
Dan Schawbel vs Penelope Trunk on Dating and Love Life
Dating and love life is something that affects our careers and choices significantly. Penelope Trunk, unsurprisingly, has a lot to say about relationships and dating, but Dan Schawbel also has some insight into how to maintain good relationships and develop personal brands with your significant other.
Using Personal Branding as a focus, Dan Schawbel talks about how to build your personal brand while being in a relationship. After all, a significant other is one of those “projects” that refuse to be balanced off with another.
On the other hand, Dan also talks about how to co-brand yourself with your significant other. That way you share your personal brands and don’t really need to be stuck between a relationship and developing a personal brand.
When you talk about dating and relationship advice and topics from Penelope Trunk, whoof, that’s all over the place. Penelope Trunks goes into intensive detail about her marriage, her dating life and much more. We also learn from her that high income women get more oral sex, and that if you are having sex with a woman who wrote about oral sex you are quite obliged to do it.
She also explores the curious topic of whether woman can use their power at work to help their young lovers like men do to younger girls. Finally, she gives out standard nice advice about how can girls get guys at work by having verbal cues and playing hard to get.
For Dan Schawbel, love life and dating still needs to have some aspect of being professional and brand building. Whereas for Penelope Trunk, love is a crazy thing and it goes all over the place. We might as well go crazy with it.
Dan Schawbel vs Penelope Trunk: Who would you learn from more?
In a video interview we did with Dan Schawbel, Dan humbly says that Penelope is definitely the top person he knows in the field.
However, Dan has definitely carved out his niche and has a lot of potential ahead of him. He also has many more decades to push out and strengthen his personal brand since Penelope Trunk has been in the field for longer.
What about you? Do you feel like you learn more from Dan Schawbel or Penelope Trunk? What would you like to see more of?
I’m guessing this analysis took you 3-4 hours to write-up, so I appreciate the work. I think you have some good points and I never thought of it this way. You give good feedback, even though you call me BORING!!!!
Don’t you blog for me
Hey Dan, I do take great pride in blogging for Personal Branding Blog. This post was actually written by Yu-kai Chou who is the CEO of Viralogy. He writes post every Tuesday where he compares two very highly influential people in the online community.
Last week was Gary vs Tim. This week is you vs Penelope. What will next week bring?
Only Yu-kai Chou knows
- Jun
Hey Dan,
Thanks for the compliments
It actually took much longer than 3-4 hours because I tried to read through almost every single post you and Penelope have, and man you guys have really long posts. I think after that I become some sort of expert too in this field 
Haha, regarding boring, common man, how can you be super interesting when you yourself say that you aim to become textbook material one day? And no matter what, it’s going to be TOUGH to be not-boring when you are comparing to Penelope Trunk. She goes all out in being radical and interesting. You take the safe and professional route. So even though you are informative and helpful, your reader base fit more with those who are already motivated, whereas any random person can enjoy Penelope’s materials. Just different strategies. Gotta accept the give and takes.
I wouldn’t mind if you put in more funky or personal stuff into your writing. Those hours of reading your stuff can become draining. That’s when I take a break and read Penelope
Every post Yu-kai makes continues to show excellence. Really. Just the amount of effort, time, and overall attributes you attain to your point is just phenomenal. I think there is required reading for anyone who is interested in marketing/branding themselves. Who gets the edge?
It would be quite easy for me to say Dan, as well we share the same first name, but I’m going undecided. This is like asking you to pick the difference between two beautiful, identical flowers. I can’t decide.
Dan you’re a bit too flattering, but thank you.
I wouldn’t say they’re like two beautiful, identical flowers. I’m thinking something more in the lines of comparing a beautiful rose with a strong and healthy tree. It’s hard to pick.
Thanks for being on the internet. You are a cool cat without a hat.
Interesting concept to compare apples to oranges (IMO) in this HUGE career and often confused personal brand”ing” subject.
I will submit that I RSS feed Dan’s blog to the Personal brand and career strategy forum on my site because he has created an unmistakable culture of giving resources on the subject. That is remarkable even if I don’t always agree with some of the content or delivery. I am impressed with the commitment, awareness and research from Dan; when we experience a humble Dan, watch out…I think.
Hahaha, you make good points.
People always talk about comparing apple with oranges. Well, I think you CAN compare Apple and Oranges. They’re both fruits. You can say you like one’s taste better than the other, you can say one is more expensive, and you can say one is healthier than the other.
Dan is definitely a full-out guy. He has remarkable work ethics and is so hardcore with what he believes in. That’s what makes him the prime in his field.
I think Dan doesn’t need to promote himself like that forever. Once he has a certain brand name, he will no longer need to tell people it. Bill Gates does not need to say, “Hello I’m Bill Gates, and I have over 30 years of experiences running tech companies. I was the founder of Microsoft, the largest software and operating companies…”
Hopefully one day Dan just has to say, “Hello, I’m Dan Schawbel.” and everyone will be like “OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!! It’s Dan Schawbel!!” “Who’s Dan Schawbel?” “You don’t even know who is Dan Schawbel is?? You’re a loser!” “Ahhh I’m sorry! ;( ”
I’ll help him get to that point one day
What a great post, Yu-kai! This is a great overview of Penelope Trunk vs. Dan Schwabel. I never thought of them as competitors before, but this is very interesting. All I can say is that I never get tired of reading Penelope Trunk’s advice precisely because she writes real things about her life, which makes it so easy to connect to her, which makes it easy to want to listen to her advice. Whatever it is, I’m always drawn back to her blog.
It was great meeting you last week and I wished we got a chance to talk more.
Keep on with Virology! It has some really great, unique content!
Hey Irina!
Thanks for the comment and compliments! I wouldn’t say they are truly competitors, but are rather complimentary in the career development field.
It’s easier to do what Dan teaches but easier to relate our own lives to Penelope Trunk’s stuff.
It was great meeting you too. We’re looking to be as unique as we can. After all, we are uniquies
I started out reading Dan’s blog for career advice and I like how he finds personal branding within almost anything. It’s a great way to look at yourself as a personal brand. Well thought out post once again.
Hahaha, Dan’s definitely a good step-by-step. If you just trying to learn as much as you can on personal branding, Dan’s the Man.
I met Penelope Trunk once, in an entrepreneurship class to which she was a guest speaker. Being an engineer, I was rather intimidated by her in person. Then I started subscribing to Brazen Careerist and Penelope’s blog. The subjects Penelope writes about and the side she takes on an issue were acquired taste, but you learn to read between the lines to discover the lesson, or you can simply enjoy a peeping-tom moment into Penelope’s life. (Who wouldn’t be interested!?)
Dan Schwabel became known to me through Twitter — actually, through the Brazen Careerist bloggers I was following on Twitter. What drew me to Dan’s work was, as this post said, the practical advices he gave. Yet I was soon turned off and unsubscribed from Dan’s tweets. The problem: It’s one thing to be branded by other people as a subject expert; it’s something else to label oneself an expert. I was slightly turned off by that. Besides, he tweets too much, and I don’t care for most of what he says. Dan’s style is just not my style, I realized.
Hello Gene,
When I saw Penelope on video, I was actually surprised by how mild she seemed. I thought she would sound mean and sharp, but she sounds like a nice lady when she speaks. No one can disagree that her blog posts are interesting and different though. It’s a big mix of life, not just career advice.
Haha, a lot of people have a problem with Dan calling himself the expert. However, just like how companies have to first brand themselves as “Best Performance in the Industry”, it’s often required for Dan to do that, and he is doing an excellent job.
Hahaha, but sometimes one can definitely feel like there is “too much Dan” everywhere and you just want to say “I get it! Personal branding is important!” But like anything that is important, you learn while you are a noob, and then you graduate. Once you graduated, you don’t need to be in class all day anymore, but you still remember and respect the instructor
This is a terrific, thoughtful post. Whoo followed by hoo!
Yeah, so I vote for Penelope Trunk hands down. Not to bypass your thoughtful commentary…but look at the pictures. Who’s life do you want? The uptight dude in the suit or the sexy woman with the latte and the laptop in front of a huge - and full - rack of wine bottles?
I know who I want to be.
Hey Kelly,
Thanks for commenting
Hahaha, you have a point there. However, wanting to be one person is different from learning from one person. Dan is more about teaching teaching teaching, while Penelope is more towards feelings feelings teaching. One’s definitely more interesting though
Wow, you sure did a lot of research for this post!
It was fun to read, but frankly, I would never have made the comparison.
I think of Dan as a good, kind version of Tim Ferriss. Like Tim, Dan is an incredibly hard worker, and like Tim, Dan has a laser focus about what he wants from his career and his life and how he will get there. The other thing that they share is that they both are incredibly self-directed and goal-focused right out of the gate — no meandering, wondering twentysomething years for them.
I wish I could have been so sure of myself so early on as Dan is. It’s amazing to watch.
Penelope
Haha, good to see the other main person in this article respond
I was wondering what would you think about the post. We know that pissing you off isn’t too fun of an experience, but since you throw that stuff onto your blog anyway, I’m sure you don’t mind people bringing it up somewhere else. To be fair, I looked more heavily into the “Penelope’s Favorites” instead of “All Time Favorites” because everyone just wants the juicy stuff and you can’t control that, but Penelope’s Favorites are the lessons you really want to teach the world.
It’s interesting how you compare Dan to Tim Ferriss. Like you to me, I wouldn’t make that comparison, but can surely see where you are coming from. I think you have been motivated your entire life, but have bounced here and there due to life circumstances. You’re a risk taker, and that’s what happens when you are one. Tim Ferriss bounced here and there for a lot of his projects too. I don’t think he had the laser focus on one thing his entire life. He just happened to score big on one of his projects, so then he somewhat stabled down.
Dan on the other hand is literally just sticking to his niche the entire way. He made a decision on what he wants, and every single day after that he becomes that decision. I don’t even see how Dan can just talk about Personal Branding for years without running out of steam.
Hey Dan, Penelope calls you a nicer Tim Ferriss. What do you say about that?
Having been exposed to both ‘contestants’ via my own research, I quickly gravitated towards Penelope - NOT because we are both woman, but because she exhibited more recognition of the necessary balance between a personal and professional life. I’ve CULTIVATED a stoic professional persona (military experience + post-grad male dominated profession) and know what a dichotomy is Real Life. While I don’t always (rarely) sync with Penelope’s POV, I do appreciate it’s realism, while Dan’s advice has a tinge of the slightly derogatory lecture towards salicious gains by Roger Dodger’s conquest-hunting character (in pursuit of career gains rather than pleasure-dome gains, granted). Dan is anticipated result oriented. Penelope is ‘let it roll’ and ‘let it be’ oriented. I gravitate towards the latter.
The information here is great. I will invite my friends here.
Thanks
Wow! Two of my most favorite career experts on the net. Both are very good in their styles and it suits them, their character, their lifestyle and their preferences. I like Penelope more though (maybe because women likes to hear more of other women’s thoughts, eh?) but I also like how well thought Dan’s posts are. I like the honesty and bluntness in Penelope and they’re probably the best things that ever happened on the internet (career-wise)
After a long wait and shrewd patience we should be rewarded with something like this. To learn and fulfil your career is truly a magnificent way to change the course of our daily lives.
First, these people don’t just appeal to generation under 30.
Second, the reason women love PT is because she proves that your personal life has nothing to do with your ability to create amazing change at work and be a competent CEO.
Third, Bill Gates (worth 8 billion USD) left college, Mark Zuckerberg (worth billions) also dropped out of college, Dean Kamen (worth billions) left school too; Sir Richard Branson (worth 8.6 billion) left school when he was 16; Paul Allen (worth 18 billion) dropped out of college as well; Ralph Lauren (worth 3.6 billion) quit college too; Steve Jobs (worth 5.7 billion) dropped out of college in his first semester; Larry Ellison (worth 18.4 billion) quit college; Michael Dell (17.2 billion) left college without graduating; Kirk Kerkorian (worth: 18.0 billion) dropped out of school in the 8th grade and the top real estate holder in SF came to America from Italy with an 8th grade education.
What can we learn from this? Did they crawl up the corporate ladder, or did they decide to create a corporate ladder for college graduates to climb?
What does any of this have to do with doing what you love?
And, who would I rather follow?
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